What Makes Someone Creepy?

(upbeat electronic music) – Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I'm Link – And I'm Rhett

This week at the round table of dim lighting, we are exploring the question what makes someone creepy? – Ooh – And other questions that we received from you Mythical Beasts – Yeah there's lots of thought-provoking questions I'm conjuring thoughts Wasn't easy

– Hmm – I'm having trouble conjuring thoughts at this moment, just fair warning– – Don't say conjuring because it makes me think of the movie Conjuring and I just was talking about it with someone last night and I don't like to think about it – Then why were you talking to somebody about it? – I love to talk about it – You do – I just don't like to think about it

– Okay We're gonna get into the world of creepy and some other things Including if we had a triathlon of dad sports, what would they be and who would win? I got some thoughts on that and other stuff too – But first I wanted to check in with you I've noticed something that's happened a couple times I've been visiting your home

– Oh yeah? – You have nonchalantly said, "Okay Google, dim the lights in the living room" (chuckles) Or something along those lines and they've actually dimmed Or they, you've spoken to your home – Uh-huh – And I know this is not– – That's right, we have a– – This is not a new thing

– I have an intimate relationship with my home – And I'm in the process of going full bore – Well yeah all morning I was looking over at you at your desk, just kinda seeing what you were working on It seems like you were deep– – It wasn't all morning – You were deep into figuring out how to talk to your house

– Yeah – I think you even Googled, I looked over at one point and you were like, how can I be as cool as Link? – Yeah, it's interesting when you Google that directly – Have you done that? What pops up? – A wikiHow – Which I wrote (both chuckle) So you wanna talk to your lights too

– Yeah – I talk to my lights – Well interesting thing, so I was talking to Daniel, who is the reason that we look so cool on the internet I mean actually yeah, it's Mike Feldman He's the one that makes us look so cool in the merch, but Daniel does– – It was not merch

– He'll go out and get some clothes for us sometimes to wear on the show and he was in, I was talking to him about I kind of had been looking, what smart, you gotta get the smart bulbs You gotta get the bulbs that can be spoken to or basically they register with your, well you can do the bulbs, you can do the things that you plug in but you also have to do the switches And the reason I wanted to do the bulbs themselves and not just the, I know what you got is a converter you plug into and then it can control on and off or– – Yeah you plug it into the wall, then you plug the lamp into the thing which I incidentally, I got a couple of those from a GMM episode, I think it's where we were remote controlling Christmas lights or something and I was like hey, when we're done with that I wanna take that home and I hooked it up and then I just ended up getting more of 'em And I did get one that was hard-wired to my front porch lights so that I could speak to my home– – Did you have an electrician do that or you did that? – Yeah, no, I don't do electrical – Okay

– I can't use a knife I can't use fire, I can't use electrics – Yeah 'cause I'm gonna have to get, again, I want to be able to control the front lights, the lights, right now they're on like a timer but I'd like to be able to control the lights that are on the house, the lights at the driveway and then all lights But you also gotta get, anything that's like an overhead light that's like, we have recessed lighting in most rooms and that's on a switch so now you gotta get the switch that can be controlled – You wanna talk to every single light in your house? – All lights

– That's too much – Well I'll be the judge of that once I can talk to everything – You're going overboard You're going overboard – Well you know why I'm going overboard, because when I was talking– – To be like me

– To Daniel, no, because no, see, you gave me an idea of what it could be like to be cool – Okay – But you actually aren't – Okay – You're not as cool as I'm gonna be when I can literally speak to every light source in my entire house

And let me tell you what – That's too much – Here's what Daniel told me about, he said, I've got a friend who did this to their house and the reason you need the smart bulbs and not just the little converter is because these bulbs can be programmed to change color and flash and do all kinds of things based on voice commands, and this guy has created a custom program for his different friends And so he's like hey, Google Sandra's here and all of a sudden, it'll flash red and it'll play like ♪ Dun dun dun ♪ Google Home will access a track

– Connects to its Spotify playlist first – So you think you're cool now, you wait until you come to my house and I say, "Okay Google, Link's here" And just see how cool you feel then – Well if you get the right camera, your house will know that I'm there – I'm also doing that

– And then you don't even have to say okay Google, Link's here which is an odd thing to say – Aw you think you can program an intelligent camera to recognize your face and then play a specific track, I'm sure you can – No – No yeah because– – There's a missing connection – No there's not because things have the– – You're gonna basically rewire your entire house so that when Sandra comes over it can flash red? – Yeah, exactly

(Link scoffs) – That's nutty, man I mean that's novel But you'll never do it – Interestingly, I'm actually surprised because you know the reason I'm compelled to do every single light is because it just seems clean, you know what I'm saying? – Yeah but– – In fact, just having a couple of lights you can control, but then oh I gotta get up and touch the light switch for that one, Sandra – The lights that I control are the ones that I never walk past the switch

Or– – I don't wanna walk at all I wanna roll around like a– – Or the ones that I want– – Like a slug and– – To be on a timer – Just speak to my house – I mean I'm just saying it's not gonna be worth it You wanna be in bed and say okay Google, turn off all the lights

– Well I haven't gotten there but that's another great idea – See that would be useful – But not with Sandra – I have my different lights that turn on all the lights There's certain lights that I want to turn on with the sunset, that happens automatically and then they turn off at different times

– Well you can also set routines – The nook light turns off at like nine The chair light, I got a nook light, a chair light, a couch light, a front light, and a back light And that's all the lights I got – Well I'm gonna have 47

– All the other ones I use a switch – Yeah so archaic, you have to touch it – For every light– – Gross – Rhett, for every light you have to name it You're gonna have to name 47 lights and then you're gonna have to remember those names

– And I'm gonna do cool names like Battleship, light B12 – Yeah you're gonna have to come up with a system – And I'm gonna be the only one who understands it – Right and then you'll be– – You gotta talk to Dad if you want a light adjusted – You'll be included with everyone who never uses it

– So it'd be like, okay Dad, turn on light B12 and I'll be like, okay Google, turn on light B12 – I mean– – Well no they won't say B12, they'll say porch light, and I'll say C17 – I'm just telling you man I'm exposing it I'm looking out for you

You don't, I mean I'm basically at my limit of the number of light, I can't remember now – You just told me all of 'em in the span of a minute – But sometimes I'm like okay Google, turn on the (stutters) couch light and it's like I'm sorry, I haven't learned that yet It's like it's very polite (Rhett laughs) – Well that's just– – It takes the onus– – That's user error

You know another thing– – It's tough to keep 'em straight, man, you're gonna have problems – Here's the thing, you can get your lights to be tied into your intelligent cameras And so that if you happen to be out of town and someone comes to your front door, if the intelligent doorbell with a camera senses someone at the door, it can turn, it can be a program between the hours of blank and blank, if you see motion outside, turn on this light and so it makes it seem like somebody's turning on their bedroom light or turning on another light This is so smart Also they're on camera and you can see 'em

– And that keeps Sandra away – Yeah it's Sahn-dra is what she prefers – Sandra – She's insulted when you call her Sand-ra – Sandra

– I'm gonna have a whole thing for you when you come over, man Then you'll be like, oh I gotta do this – I mean it's a novel idea I just– – It's the future, man Everyone's gonna be talking to their house

And you can be like I remember in 2019, Rhett started talking to his house in every which way – In too many ways You can talk to it in too many ways Now I'm a fan of throwing something to the television to start watching like watch a YouTube clip or just start playing music Playing music in certain zones in my house

– Right – I do that every single day And I'm like, I want this to play everywhere We got a party – But Google– – I want this to play just downstairs 'cause Christy's upstairs takin' a nap

– That's a great system – Or I want this to play only upstairs – Discontinue– – My bathroom and my bedroom – Chromecast Audio – I bought a whole stash of those before they off the market

I don't know why they did that – But what do you do now? – That's a problem – What do I do? – There's still some floating out there you can buy – No they gotta be– – If you wanna connect to your– – There's gotta be a new solution – Do Sonos

Not a sponsor – No but I'm gonna do the outdoor speakers too They gotta be hard wired to like a stereo head of some kind – Go ahead– – Then your stereo head has a Chromecast – Go ahead and buy a couple of Chromecast Audios right now

Seriously, they're still floating around Just buy a couple for like 25 bucks Just to have the option 'Cause Google Chromecast, not audio, doesn't work with that system, it's a separate thing – Oh 'cause it doesn't have a 3

5 jack – I don't know, it doesn't, but I don't know if that's the reason why – But that's what audio has right? – Listen if this were a tech podcast, people would be calling in and we'd be telling 'em all types of stuff – Well this is my secret way of letting you know I'd like to make Ear Biscuits a tech podcast and two guys who don't really know anything about tech are gonna say things like 35 jack

– The Click and Clack of welcoming Sandra to your house Remember Click and Clack? – Yeah – You call in and they would tell you about automobile stuff – One of 'em died – That's Ben and Jerry

– No, you're talking about Click and Clack, NPR, they had the auto repair show and they were like wizards of cars – Oh yeah I didn't know one of them passed away – Yeah – I also didn't know that they invented ice creams which I'm glad they did – Okay, so we're not gonna just talk about tech

That is what the podcast is about now, but we promised you we'd answer questions so next week's all about tech (both chuckle) And every week after – Okay well let's get into some questions but first, let's promote some merch You're wearing an Ear Biscuit t-shirt Looks good

– Talk about meta I mean I've got on Ear Biscuit t-shirt We're on Ear Biscuits, we're on the shirt Now there was a point in time when I would have not wanted to do this but I've embraced it So here we are merching it up– – It's easier for– – On the show

– It's easier for you, listener, to go out in public with us on your shirt than it is to do it – That's true – So that's why we're inviting you to buy it – I wouldn't wear this in public, but you should It's a great shirt, I wouldn't wear it just because I don't like to be on my own shirt

– I like to be in my shirt – True Also we got mugs that say the same thing on 'em Which is the name of this podcast – Ear Biscuits

– Ear Biscuits – All right, Mythicalstore Just go over there and browse, you'll be surprised 'cause there's something you didn't know was there – Now there's a lot of tech, a lot of tech at the store

– Tech advice – Yeah you can buy tech advice – There's a chat There's a chat button It's like chat with someone live right now

– And that's me talking about– – For your tech advice – And my answer to all your questions will be– – Mythicalstore – 35 jack

I think it's millimeters, 35 millimeters jack – Yeah – Actually my tech name is Jack Link, you wanna answer some questions? – Yeah let's get into this, man

This is gonna be fun You wanna start with the creepy? Let's start with the creepy, I mean, we teased with it and what if we don't get to it? – Yeah that's a good point – This is a question from awhile back and then we never got to it and now we think it's the best question – Well a lot of people– – What does that mean? – Thumbsed it up on Facebook so they really wanted to hear the answer to it – Okay

– Angelien Batterman Sometimes I meet someone and without even speaking to them or knowing anything about them, I get a vibe of this person is creepy, or this person is trustworthy and it almost always pans out to be true Does this happen to other people and if so, what the heck are we picking up on? – Well you know, I think that from an evolutionary standpoint, it's definitely advantageous to develop the gene level skill of a sixth sense of knowing if someone's gonna kill you or maim you or otherwise violate you So it makes sense in theory that we would have this inexplicable sense of creepiness because I am saying that creepy is correlated to getting maimed or otherwise violated, and then personally, I think I experience this I think I do have a sense

Like if you started showing me, if you just went through a line up of people and I could make split second decisions of creepy or like hot or both – Creepy or hot? – That's the decision I make – It was creepy or trustworthy – Oh (laughs) – How did we get to hot? – Oh sorry

– Hot is usually– – I got a little distracted – Hot is not sort of a sixth sense thing Usually it's sort of like oh, I look at them and find them attractive – In the same way that I feel like I can look at someone and be like, oh, given my personal tastes, this person is attractive Or whatever, but I think in the same– – Instant? – Instant, I could determine creepiness and I can do it to the same person at the same time

And I can say that person is hot but creepy – Let's explore what we think – That person's hot because they're creepy – We'll explore what makes someone creepy or what you think and I think – Don't you feel the same? – Oh yeah but I don't remember what this was, in a book or an article or something but– – An instant message

– Someone was advising people on this exact thing which is when you have this sense that you can't explain that someone is creepy, you should always act on it – And you should trust your instincts – And you should always act on it without apology – So trust your– – You should trust your instincts – Regardless of who you are, trust your instincts and don't feel like you need to apologize, that's a good point

– And you shouldn't feel like you are, don't judge yourself in that moment where you're like, oh is there something in me that's bad that I'm making a judgment about this person that's just like, well, I don't know, but your safety is important and I'm not saying you gotta do something, just getting yourself out of that situation Trust your instincts and more often than not, they're right, but what is it that people are picking up on? – Well the first thing I think about are the eyes And then the second thing I think about is the mouth So I think about that area Creepiness is not necessarily what the eyes look like but if you've got like, if there's a stare happening and it's like how would you describe this? Like what about, like I'm looking at you now

I'm just looking at you, right, but and now, watch the difference What's happening because I'm trying to put a name to that as what to me is creepy So I'm just looking at you – That's pretty explicit though That's a facial, that's an aggressive facial expression

– Okay but– – I'm just talking about– – For the listeners– – Somebody isn't doing anything aggress– – For the listeners, can you just, I think this is my answer – You flared your nostrils and you raised your eyebrows – No I didn't Don't look at my nostrils I'm covering my nostrils and I'm covering my eyebrows

Am I covering my eyebrows? – Yeah – All right I'm just looking at you And now I'm doing that – Well you could be surprised, you just sort of raised your eyes You opened your eyes more

– I bugged my eyes a little bit – I'm not talking about picking up on facial expressions – I am If you do, my answer is, if you bug your– – If someone makes a, bugs their eyes out at you, get out! – If your eyes, buggy eyes compared, not compared but paired with a slightly open mouth, that's dead on creepy – Okay well I don't disagree with that but that just feels more obvious

Whereas I'm talkin' about like you've got– – Well then I'm starting obvious – So think about this You got Ted Bundy, right, did you watch The Ted Bundy Tapes? – No and I don't know why anyone did – I watched a little bit of it and– – Oh I'm gonna watch hours and hours dedicated to a– – I didn't watch hours and hours– – Demented serial killer – I watched a little bit of it, well, a lot of people– – Love it, lot of people love it

– Yeah – Hey I'm not afraid to go against the grain I don't get it, man – And the thing that made him such an unusual serial killer is he was like a handsome, charming guy – But I bet, I haven't seen it, but I bet he was doing that with his eyes

– It has nothing to do with the expressions that he was making – Of course it does but, so what do you, okay, keep going – I mean essentially what you're saying is that like if I were to go into a room and somebody were to go, and I just made a very angry– – I didn't do that – Gorilla face – I just went a little like– – Of course, yeah, but you did a piece of an expression but what if somebody is actually coming in and they're doing charming things? I believe that you probably could still pick up on something creepy

If Ted Bundy has the capacity to kill you, but yet he also has the capacity to be charming and to make prolonged eye contact or whatever, still think there's probably something and again, I do think that it's something visual, aural as in audio-ish – That's what I was saying – That you're picking up on but I don't think it's an expression I think it's things more subtle like posture or changes in tone of voice I'm saying– – Okay so what posture? – I don't know, I'm saying that I don't know what it is

I think it's super subtle but I don't think it's like, this guy, every time I look at him, he bugs his eyes out at me – All right but okay, just like a little bit of a stare, mouth breathing, I think inexplicable smiling where you see teeth – I'm okay then, can't see my teeth Where are you coming up with this criteria? – I'm just picturing creepy people and I'm describing them to you It's not rocket science

I mean everything I've said is creepy, right? I mean if they're staring and scratching, like– – You're talking about creepy behavior though I'm saying that somebody walks in and they been instructed to follow a protocol of behavior that is like, you're gonna walk into this room and you're going to stand there and you're going to remain stone-faced Two people do this, you think one is trustworthy and one is creepy and it isn't because someone made a face It's because someone has a face – I think if– – You don't understand what I'm saying? There's something about their face, the structure

– Okay, I'll go – The distance of the eyes – If the percentage of body fat contained on the face is below 7% – You think some people have 7% of their body fat on their face? – (laughs) No That's not what I'm saying

– Maybe like a large-headed baby (Link laughs) – I'm saying the exact opposite, man If your percent body fat– – Is 7% – Is 7% in the facial area or less If you're like gaunt

– Just in the face – Yeah, I think it's like, I was walking down the street one time and I saw, shoot what's the name, Walter Scoggins, isn't that his name? The guy from co-star with Danny McBride in Vice Principals – Goggins – Walter Goggins – Isn't it Goggins? – Great actor, hilarious guy

He plays the harpsichordist in that new– – HBO show – HBO show that you showed me I'm a huge fan of the guy, but he's got a creepy vibe I mean he's got a creepy facial structure – And actually that's what makes him so castable

– He's got deep-set eyes, like me, but I ain't creepy 'cause I got big, fat cheeks – Oh yeah you're way over 7% – Right I got– – You might have 7% of your body fat in your (laughs) (Link chuckles) – Lincoln and I were sittin' in the hot tub and of course I don't wear my glasses in the hot tub and I come up out of the water and my hair's slicked back and Lincoln's sitting next to me like we're both on a jet so like at point blank range, and I come up and he's staring at me like creepy, and I'm like, "What?" And he's like, "Your face is shaped "like a upside-down diamond" – (laughs) What? – He's like, "You got your cheeks

" He's like, "You look so different without glasses," and I was like, "Well my hair's slicked back" I was like, "I look like granddaddy, don't I?" He was like, "Your face is like a di," well he just said a diamond, it's like, straight across at the top, comes out a little bit, comes out a big piece here at the points of my cheeks and then boop, boop How is a diamond shaped? – Like your face upside-down – Boop boop boop – (chuckles) Apparently

– I got a diamond face It's not creepy – No you're not creepy – But more, if you can see more of the skeletal structure of the face, then you start to get creepy And if you're scratching something, then you're off the charts

– Okay, yeah, yeah – But you're looking for something else I sense – I don't know what it is but I'm saying that there are these intangible things that you are picking up on and it's not your conscious mind picking up on it and that's why you shouldn't, again, that's why you shouldn't judge yourself because you're picking up on something that, again, that you said is coming from like a reptilian part of your brain that's not some conscious process It's just this instinct and you should trust it – But it could be, I could list a whole bunch of other things like unkempt, wiry eyebrows

Like or if there's like four or five– – Four or five eyebrows? – That are just like boi-oi-oi-oi-oi-oing – You got more than two eyebrows, that's definitely creepy You mean eyebrow hairs, okay, got it – Like if you're inexplicably smiling and you don't see teeth but you're doing something with your tongue, like you're licking your lips with your tongue, that's creepy I think the problem actually is trustworthiness

I'm all over creepy but thinking somebody's trustworthy, that's dangerous You're giving somebody the benefit of the doubt I think you gotta be really careful with that Like yeah they might have a chubby face, chubby cheeks like me but they might look trustworthy, but don't trust that – And there is– – Like a Ted Bundy

– There is a tendency to fall into prejudice here, right, 'cause people may be like well, I don't trust this person– – Absolutely – Because of the way that I judge where they come from And that's obviously bad I'm not suggesting do that 'cause you get into some, I'm kinda talking about when you're in that, when you're in a vulnerable place and you get a vibe, even if you get a vibe of trustworthiness, eh, get a vibe of trustworthiness, go into business with a person – No

– And trust your instincts – Mm-mm – Start a business right on the spot – No – Partnership

– I'm disturbed that you were not able to say one thing that you think makes people, you're like creepy blind – No no, because my theory is that what makes somebody creepy is not something that I can articulate It's something that happens in the reptilian part of my brain and the reptilian part of my brain cannot speak, cannot form words, can't even really form thoughts in the same way, it just acts on instinct, cause and effect and I'm saying that there, and I'm sure that what they've done is they've done some study, if we were not lazy If I didn't wanna roll around like a slug and turn my lights on with my voice– – Yeah – Then I'd probably Google what makes somebody creepy and there would be an answer, but you know what, that's what the internet's for, that what Ear Biscuits is for

– I think there was a Vsauce video, what makes something creepy – Well there you go, Vsauce has already done it Why are we sitting here talking about it? – But he didn't say why people look creepy That'd be a stupid video to make 'cause you'd draw a lot of, well I think you're describing me – Link us to the– – And leave that to me on a podcast which, I'm sorry if you have a skeletal face or that you lick your lips, I'm just saying to me, you're acting creepy and you need to stop it

– Well link us to an actual scientific article, #EarBiscuits, we'll read it Others will too Here's another question from Megan Martin What is an experience you had as a kid that you wish your kids could have but can't and then the opposite, what is an experience your kids have– – Oh – That you wish you were able to have as kids

(Link sighs) – Okay do you know what you wish our kids could experience that they can't but we did? – Well I think about this quite often And we've touched on this in general before but just the amount of freedom, whoa, almost threw that off the table The amount of freedom that we had growing up which I think was partially regional and partially generational – Yeah – Being able to go off and do whatever we want to and that is not something that our kids even have the capacity to do at this point 'cause they've got, I can track their location on their phones

– Summertime bike excursions – But the specific thing that I was thinking about was something we talked about recently that we did not, that me and you talked about that we've never talked about publicly Was we were trying to remember when we were our sons' ages, so like maybe even younger than Locke, so probably 14 'cause it was 14, 15, it was like, maybe the summer between eighth and ninth grade – Mm-hmm – Which incidentally is the setting for our upcoming novel– – [Both] The Lost Causes of Bleak Creek

– Pre-order it now, BleakCreekcom – It takes place in the summer of 1992 But anyway, we had a friend Ben who we talked about him before, Ben Greenwood, The Book of Mythicality was dedicated to Ben He was an embodiment of Mythicality if there ever was one

Passed away from cancer years ago He was this incredibly adventurous guy who got us into so many things and somehow, he talked his parents and then we talked to our parents into letting us travel, they drove us in the Greenwood's Subaru from Buies Creek to Buckhorn Dam, which was, it's basically the beginning of the Cape Fear River The Cape Fear River's head waters are a little bit higher than that but this is like there's a dam there and you have to go over the dam – Right – And we got into a canoe, the three of us

– Ben's canoe, or Ben's dad's, I don't know whose canoe it was – It was Ben's canoe, an Old Town Canoe, green, that was definitely not a whitewater canoe, it was like a pond canoe but we took this canoe There's only two seats in a canoe and then there's a crossbar and we would take turns who sat on the crossbar and we, no supervision, no phone, we just canoed all of the way down the Cape Fear River, all the way back to our homes – That is a long freakin' way, I mean, it probably, it was at least a six hour journey – Yes, and– – On the river

– There was no– – There are multiple rapids – I'm gonna check in with you guys when you get to, it's like Locke and Lincoln and a friend getting into a boat, driving them an hour and a half away and then just having them, bye, hopefully you make it – Well we worked up to it I think the reason they had the canoe was because he could take it to the lake on the golf course – We did it all the time, yeah

– And then it's like well on the far side of the golf course is the Cape Fear River so we could take it there – We'd crossed the river in the canoe, yeah – Yeah or just swim or whatever there, and then we would take it from there down to Erwin, but then at some point you're like, let's start at the further-most point and yeah, right below that dam like the water is waterfalling down over that But yeah it's just crazy to think, I just can't imagine doing that with and trusting Locke and Lincoln with that – Well and I just always think what does it mean? I actually think that my kids are, you know, they're a lot like me, they're naturally independent and will do a lot of things without any pushback

But there are times when I'm like, no doubt our tendency to do things like get into a boat, 'cause I'm not saying it wasn't, it still wasn't normal Our other friends weren't doing it – That's true – There were some people who were doing it and it was sort of accepted – And we wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for Ben initiating it

– Right We needed somebody to let us know that it could be done But I have to think that our decision to do a lot of things like that and having it be awesome and then having it turn out well is one of the reasons that we kinda lived a life of what some people interpret as risky behaviors at least in terms of taking chances on things and trying new things Sometimes I worry, okay, our kids don't have that, they don't exercise that level of independence and so is that gonna come back to haunt them? Or is it just gonna happen in a different way? – Yeah I think a sense of adventure for them is let's go to a rock-climbing wall Or like when I was on this one stretch of mountain biking with Lincoln, I did realize that if he fell off the bike to the left, he would fall down, he would careen down a cliff

– Right – I was like oh, this is cool, I bet he's scared right now I didn't ask him later 'cause I realized we were going down the wrong path and we had to turn around and I was just very apologetic that we had to push our bikes back up this really steep hill – Oh push huh? – Oh but yeah I had to look on my phone in order to figure it all out, which we had none of that Of course when you're on a river, it's easy to not get lost 'cause there's only one direction, there's only one river, but you know the thing about Ben, said he embodied Mythicality

It's a credit to his parents that they were, I can't remember what we told our parents We're going out with Ben on the river (mutters) It's like I don't know how much they really understood but it was very clear that Ben's parents knew what was going on because they're driving us there, dropping us off, there's no question – My parents definitely did not know the– – They didn't appreciate– – It wasn't that level of communication, it was like I want you to tell me where you're going I wanna know specifically, I wanna see on a map, I wanna know when you're gonna get there

They were just like oh the Greenwoods guy, good – Right but to their credit, when I think about it, I just wonder if I don't know, maybe this is a silly question but because Ben's life was so short and he had, he was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome I think in seventh grade, so like, he no longer could even come to public school with us and then he was so limited that whenever he had the energy to do things and we were doing things with him, it was like, he had a little bit more freedom to experience, I mean he experienced so much of life especially given the physical limitations from which he suffered

– Mm-hmm – I don't know, I take some comfort in that and I feel honored that we were along for the ride, literally a lot of times in his boat But maybe there was some sort of sense of life is short, go for it I think that maybe his parents had a sense of that – Hmm

– That kinda led to, yeah, we'll drop you off here and we trust you to be, he had a good head head on his shoulders and he was like, he was smart about all that type of stuff, and we trusted him with our lives, you know? – The only thing I'll say that makes me think that I don't, I mean maybe they acted that way without even realizing it but he was that way from as far back as I can remember when I met him in third grade and he told stories of Oklahoma which is where he moved from All the stuff, in third grade you're not that old, right? You haven't lived a whole lot of life but he had already done so many cool things And so I think they would just, they trusted him and he was super responsible and we just did, again, it was a different time – Not that we didn't almost die on the river many times but that's once we got our kayaks – But you need that, you need that

And that's the thing It's so difficult to then try to map that onto our kids' lives because I don't, I think about, you got Lily driving right now, right, she's learning to drive and when we were 16 Oh no I guess we were 17 at the time

Me and you just got into a car and drove to Indiana (Link chuckles) From North Carolina – Well we were going to a wedding – Yeah but I mean– – I mean we were meeting your parents there It's just a road right, but yeah, that's kinda, that's a long ways for a 17 year old

– Especially back then when it was literally it was a map We had a map Like a paper map – I thought we followed, we didn't follow your parents? – No (chuckles) – 'Cause that wouldn't be as fun

I think we talked them into not following them 'Cause they drove too It's like we'll meet you there – No 'cause when we got to town and we met my granddad, remember that? – Yeah that's right – Driving along the road

Anyway but the opposite of the question is, so I don't know what the answer is, I mean there's lots of things that I'd like my kids to be able to experience but I'm also glad that they're not doing anything as risky as we did so it's really tough to answer but what do they get to do that we kinda wish that we got to do? – Well the first things that comes to my mind is our kids come to the studio and they're in videos and stuff, I mean I think we would be eating it up if– – That's true – If we had access, I mean we're still, that's why we're so, we're living our childhood dreams that we couldn't even articulate So it's like, man, your dad worked at the law school and they just happened to have this setup with two VCRs and you thought well that was our opportunity to edit video for the first time but that was like heaven It was like I'm going and I got Dad's key and I'm going into the two VCR room – Yeah

– I mean it's like think about if it wasn't two VCRs but it was this Like hey, I can be on my dad's show or something We're filming some stuff, we film stuff with Shando all the time Like gettin' them into it because they're so stinking cute and the way that they play off of each other is hilarious because they're so different – Well and we did a similar thing with Locke and Lincoln back, was it The Mythical Show? – Yeah The Mythical Show

– They came in and did a segment – Yeah it was like– – When they were cute (Link chuckles) – But they don't– – But they don't wanna be a part of it now – It's not like they're living a dream, it's just like they get a kick out of it Lily actually said, "You know what, I'd like to be "in a video again

" She still thinks it's kinda– – Oh yeah 'cause she did some stuff last year – Yeah She's gonna come in next week and watch us film some stuff She's excited about it I'm glad that they do feel that way but our minds would have been blown, man, if it was like, I don't know, maybe we wouldn't have cared

It's like we would have grown up, if our dads were like, worked at the public access television studio or something, that's kinda what the equivalent would have been – The first thing that came to my mind was the stuff that our kids get to do And this is partly because of our jobs and partly because of where we live but also, this is a much more travel-oriented generation It's much more, people fly a lot more, people go a lot further I think about the vacations that we've been on with our family, our kids have been to Australia, our kids have been to Europe and Locke's been to Africa

You're gonna be– – Lily went to China – She went to China– – With a friend of hers – And you're gonna be in that part of the country, part of the world again And our kids get to eat all this amazing food when amazing food for me was Shoney's – Yeah you're talking about amazing food in LA

– Yeah well and around the world too I don't know, I feel– – Yeah it would have been nice to be spoiled like our kids have is basically what you're saying – I'm of two minds about this though because I kinda think that the fact that really up until I graduated college, Shoney's was still (clicks tongue), that was as good as it got for me, you know what I'm saying? I think that I'm able to, I think you adjust pretty quickly but I think I'm able to kind of appreciate, we traveled a little bit, we would go to Georgia to see family but– – Remember that time that my mom took me and me to Carowinds? – Yeah, I'll never forget it because those kinds of things were so, they were anomalies in our experience It was just going to an amusement park near Charlotte – Pretty awesome

– Yeah – Would have blown our minds – You wanna go to Carowinds? Is that what you're asking? – Would have blown our minds to go to Six Flags It wouldn't have been that much different – Yeah so I don't know, in one sense, I think what I'm saying is there's things that come to mind that I would have liked to do and I'd like them to do but at the same time I'm kinda glad that I had the life I had and they have the life they have

– Yeah, don't have the power to change it so let's just reconcile it – Yeah just accept it – Jonathan Garlinghouse, if you guys were to face each other in a quote, dad sports triathlon, and in parentheses he put darts, pool, bowling Is this a thing or did he make that up? Is a dad sports triathlon a thing and it consists of darts, pool, and bowling? His question is, what strengths would you bring to it and who would win overall? Well I mean I am not I'm trying as hard as I can when I throw darts on the show – Yep – I mean I'm just, I just got no chance, man And we're so close to that board and I'm horrible at it

– But I don't think your weakness is the targeting – It kinda is – I think your weakness is the guessing Are you historically that far from your guesses? – Yeah, I mean if you were to super impose like an actual dart board and the amount of fidelity there, I'm telling you right now– – Well somebody should do that – I would be horrible at it

– But we have, well– – Pool, not great at that You're not good at, so you would beat me at darts – But we've done pool and bowling on, well okay, if we're judging this by performance on Good Mythical Morning, I actually think historically, you would win, we played pool one time and you were better at it than me I don't think I'm that bad of a pool player but you beat me on that day And then bowling, when we did the flame bowling– – I was better

– At least in the edit, you got more of the strikes (Link chuckles) – No if we're bowling one game of bowling Is it called a round? I don't know, a set? I don't know what it's called

A frame I would, I think I'd beat you, but if we went two, my fingers give out – But here's the thing though is that if you isolate this down to pure, pure competition and entertainment value, it's not being filmed – Mm-hmm – And it's just simply, I kinda go into a very specific mode in those scenarios

– Yeah, which sends me into another mode so your mode is– – I get very competitive – I have to win, my– – I would be tough to beat if it was just about winning – Yeah and it sends me into my mode which is why am I doing this again? (Rhett laughs) I'm searching for a motivation Yeah I'm just like, I really don't, even in winning, I'm looking around like for some sort of an instruction manual – When you win

– Yeah I just don't really– – Well the winning is the reward – I don't really care that much – It's the winning, that's it – I do think that– – It's not the champagne that comes afterwards – I might could really work up some gumption and I think I could beat you at bowling

I think that would be a good competition – It'd definitely be close – I think like Frisbee golf, I think that would be pretty even I like to think I'm pretty good with a Frisbee – Yeah, yeah

We did that, we used to do that in college – But I'd blow you away at napping – Is that a dad, that's a dad thing? – I'm just saying, yeah, dad's gonna sit, hit the couch and who's gonna go out first? I could definitely blow you out of the water at napping – I can't nap competitively That's a given

– I mean after we had that meeting, before we came in here– – You snored within 30 seconds – Well yeah I laid down on the couch, I was like we got a meeting in 12 minutes I'm gonna take a 12 minute nap and Jade was sittin' on my lap and I even had to pee and I had to move Jade because she was on my bladder I had to pee, I had a dog sleeping on top of me 'cause she's constantly sleeping And I know I fell asleep because I did that jerk thing

– You're such a jerk – I did the jerk I actually looked it up, it's called a hypnagogic jerk – Yeah – You said I was snoring, is that– – No exaggeration within a minute there was a (snorts), there was like a– – That was when I jerked

– Oh yeah (chuckles), okay – Also called a hypnic jerk or sleep starts – Sleep starts? – Sleep starts, like I think that's short for startle – Okay Yeah I've had that happen but in a 12 minute– – That's why I'm a little grumpy right now 'cause– – A 12 minute– – A 12 minute nap– – It's supposed to help

– Well it should have been, I think it should have been 20 minutes is a power nap, right, not 12 minutes – But a 12 minute nap would not, even under the best circumstances I wouldn't go to sleep in 12 minutes It would just be I'm resting my eyes I'm really trying to go to sleep – But I literally went to sleep in– – A minute

– (chuckles) Again so it's like I'm saying let's put that in there – But that's not part of the triathlon, it's just darts, pool, and bowling – We rapped about, in that Thoughtful Guy thing, we talked about the hypnagogic jerk And it's like, I wonder if it's a defense mechanism for something, like, sleepin' on a cliff or just top bunking And they don't know why it happens but– – It's the same reason you find people creepy

– The prevailing theory if you're interested is that from a evolutionary, primal version of us, if you're a primate sleeping in a tree, like if you fall asleep then you're like, the relaxation of your muscles then triggers a reflex to– – Grab – To grab so you don't fall out of the tree – I thought it was so you don't fall out of the womb as a baby – (chuckles) Fall out of the womb – That can happen

– That's not up to you, that's up to the womb – Oh – So I think we were right about the top bunking thing Or like sleeping on a cliff, sleeping in a tree It's when that jerk happens

– That makes sense to me – So I'm winning at that too so I'm– – Well I could add golf to the dad thing and then I win I mean if we're adding things that we're good at, then we can just add ad nauseum – Getting nauseated, I'd win at that (Rhett sputters) – How 'bout another question? One last question before the Rec In Effect

– Okay – This is from Austin Kampen Touches on something we've talked about before but this is a different analysis of it – Where does it touch it? – If it was confirmed that we were in the matrix or some equivalent simulation which of course we are, and there– – Is that your words or his? – This is Austin He's saying all of this

– Oh – And there was a way out, would you take it? You'd be leaving your family, friends, and life behind for an unknown real world, would it be worth it? So obviously we talked, in fact, we made a valiant attempt to escape the simulation – Right, we held hands – On this very show – [Together] We two guys are Link and Rhett and we know we are in a simulation and we want out! – Now! – Now! – It did not work unless we escaped into a simulation that was exactly the same as the one we left

– 'Cause you were in a– – 'Cause there's no way to prove that we didn't – So you kinda answered the question that if you wanted to escape, you were having some alone time and you were thinking about if you were, if you could break out, would you, and you said out loud– – I was in the hot tub and I said, "I know this is a simulation "Let me out now," or something – And I want out – And I want out

'Cause I thought that maybe that was the key was just to acknowledge it – But then we tried it as buddies, holding hands – Doesn't work as buddies But the thing I did consider– – That's your answer But your answer at the time was you would do it

You seemed to just drag me along for the– – No and okay here's what I'll say My knee-jerk– – Your hypnagogic jerk– – My hypnagogic jerk answer to this question is that by default, I would get out of the simulation because it would be moving towards truth, right, so and now I'm gonna think about it on a second level and maybe take it back but I'm saying my knee-jerk reaction to it is oh, this is a simulation? – Yeah – But yet there's a truth beyond that that you can actually ascend to Yes I'm gonna go there regardless of what's on the other side – And you say ascend but it may be descend to

– Yeah, it could be – I think that's the point – Yeah But Austin has got me thinking differently about it because now all of a sudden what he's saying is that, okay– – Austin had to remind you that you have a family (chuckles) – No it's like okay, so obviously our family but you've got your dog Jade is in the room with us in Jenna's lap over there

– Can I see the– – So – Can I see the dog? – And I don't have any proof of this but you seem to be as attached to Jade as you are to any human that you are in a relationship with Now, for a moment consider that Jade is not real, she is only, she's just the result of some clever programming But by definition, excising yourself from the simulation would mean that you could no longer be in a relationship with her – Am I doing it? I mean I'm

Yeah I got too much to lose, man, look at me I got it goin' on I mean you painted a simple picture for me

– But it's not real It's not real – Neither am I – No, no, that's exactly, no You are real and you can get out, now, maybe Jade is an avatar of another dog that you can make a connection with outside of the simulation

Maybe your wife is an avatar of another individual that you can make a connection with outside of the simulation I don't know if the simulation exists just for you or if we're all avatars in a simulation, you don't know that until you get out of the simulation – Why would the Why would it be, it seems easier for me to believe that it would be worse outside of the simulation because, I'm biased because I got a #blessedlife, okay? And it's, but it seems cruel that it's all fake, it's all a simulation so it seems like that cruelty that set it up– – It seems cruel? Why does it seem cruel? – Because it's not real – You're #blessed, man – I know but I'm just saying on a But it's a farce, it's a lie It's a lie that's a favor I guess to me – Maybe it is Maybe it's just an experiment, I don't know But now if I knew definitively, like this is the thing is that– – How could it be better, again, it's like, I'm– – The people in the matrix had, they came out of the matrix and saw the real world and then made decisions to stay 'cause they could come back, right? – Mm-hmm

– But I'm just saying this is like an all or nothing deal, if you leave you can't get back and you don't know what's on the other side For me, the unknown and the fact that it is a simulation and you can get out of it, the curiosity is too high And then I would just justify it, I would be like, of course I love my family Of course I love my life But if they are ultimately just a program, then I'm not really and I'm just inside this simulation, I'm not really, I'm losing an idea

I'm not losing actual beings – Again this is like the robot relationship conversation I thought we became convinced that yes, we could have what would experientially be a viable relationship with a robot and we were cool with that – But that's self-aware self-deception – So just extend that to an entire family of robots that you're, it's like surprise, your family is robots

– I just think the fact that you don't, that there's something that you could know, that there's something on the outside that is too much With the robots, I know what the alternative is and I can slip into it at any time I can cease to, I can be like, this relationship, it's just with a robot or I can enter into it and make myself believe it – But that makes it sound like, given the way you describe it, like okay, you would go to Mars You would leave your family to discover the next frontier

– No because my family is real in that scenario I'm leaving people who have the capacity, not only is it what I feel, but they also have the capacity to grieve – But in the simulation, they do, they would grieve – Yeah but if a robot was about to kill my dog, I'd kill the robot Do you know what I'm saying? – I don't know how that applies

Someone's not about to, your family member's not about to kill you – I have a bias towards biological life Sue me – I have a bias towards my own current happiness (Rhett laughs) – Okay, I mean that's cool, man

I don't know what happens to me when I leave the simulation One day I'll figure it out I don't know if my body just drops – You're livin' a good life, man – And I just die

– The chances of, again, there's a lot of people who are livin' difficult lives I mean we are in a percentage of people on Earth who are living We don't deserve how good we've got it

– But you're assuming that– – The chances that it's better than what we've got (scoffs)– – But you're assuming– – Are nil, man – That my primary motivation is increased comfort I mean I do want to speak to my home as a slug – I know, so– – That is true – Right

– But my primary motivation for moving into the next thing is not increased comfort as much as it's increased discovery – I think your primary motive is seeming like you could take a provocative stance – No, no See, 'cause if you were to adopt my opinion, that would be true about you but that's not true about me I want Sandra to come over because I want to discover what it would be like for Sandra to have a special soundtrack with flashing lights

– Give me an example of when you have sacrificed present comfort for future discovery, for potential discovery? – Potential discovery? It happens all the time Like tasting the new Carl's Jr burger – What? You're denying yourself, what are you denying? What are you giving up? – You don't know how it's gonna go down, man – A lame example

– Okay – Rack your brain – Hot chicken (laughs) It's not comfortable I wanted the hottest one to see what it was like

I didn't think it was gonna be good – But if Instagram didn't exist, you would have done it? – I did it the other day with no Instagram – Okay that's true – No but also I don't– – That's not much of a sacrifice – Hold on but no, I think our whole career though

I don't think that it's been primarily motivated by more comfort – No That's true – But any type of, you and the Spartan race It wasn't about comfort

It was about self-discovery, man I think that's human nature If you're like listen, I can't promise you what it's gonna be like when you go into this room It could be really bad or it could really be good, the thing is is if you go into this room, the thing I can promise is it will be mind-blowing You're not gonna go in that room? I'm gonna go into that room

– But you can never come back from the room – Yeah – That's the thing – I don't care, I'm going in, man – That's the problem

– I'm going in – The problem is coming back I don't think we've been faced with that The examples that you've given are not like that, like it's a valve, you can't go back – Tattoo? (Link scoffs) Getting a tattoo? – You gotta keep thinking, man

I'm not convinced that you would do it – I'm just saying as a principle – Priors – No, when I was in the hot tub, I was really trying to get out and I was really trying to get out when we were here (chuckles) Okay

– I wasn't That's why I had so much fun trying – Let us know what you would do, #EarBiscuits But I do wanna leave you with a Rec In Effect – Oh yeah, give me a rec, man, it's your turn

♪ Check baby check ♪ – I tend to recommend shows I've noticed – Okay – I'm gonna recommend another show For those of you who like weird, it's weird and it's not for everybody and that's why I like it The second season just came back on Netflix, The OA

Did you ever watch that? – No I didn't – Anybody else in here watch that? – It's a sci-fi situation? – Yeah and I'm not gonna Basically what the show's about, by telling you what the show's about is basically sort of like the season one spoiler so I'm not gonna do that

It just, 'cause once you figure out what's going on, so there's a little bit of a mystery aspect It's just super weird – So if you like weird sci-fi – Yeah – Is it like Black Mirror? – It has Black Mirror-ish elements in that they're kind of delving in and asking some philosophical questions of what if this could happen, what if this were true and it is a concept that people have explored in philosophy and it's kind of just exploring what it would be like and then– – Are there any jolly laughs? – It is not funny at all

– Well you gotta have a little comic relief – It would be nice if it was funny, it's not funny at all – Is the writing good, is the acting good? Is it more about– – Yes The writing and acting is good – Is there any stars that I would recognize? – You would recognize the antagonist but I don't know what he's from but you would recognize him

– Okay – And then the second season, we just started watching that, Jessie and I, it's one of the shows that we enjoy together, we started watching that and it was just like, 'cause I was thinking where are they gonna go? Where are they gonna go from here? – Is it rated R? Is it for the kids? – Mm, it's not bad I think kids could watch it – Can I start with season two? – No, definitely not – Okay

– And honestly– – OA! – I don't know if you'd like it 'Cause it's just one of those things that it's like, it's weird, in fact, and my good friends Lance and Lacey who are kind of the authority on weird, without being prompted, they just texted in the text thread that they have with me and Jessie and they were like, "You guys watch The OA? "Super weird, I think you'd like it," and we were like, "Oh we love it "We watch it together" – But you don't think I would like it – Well– – I got limited screen time

I'm still trying to catch up on Game of Thrones – The thing I have observed about the way that you analyze television shows and movies is you have a difficult time enjoying things that don't have likable characters And this is not, I don't find the main character particularly likable and I don't find anybody very likable – I liked– – I like the story – I like Handmaid's Tale but I didn't like House of Cards at the beginning

But I watched– – You also didn't like that, what's that show on Showtime, or maybe it's HBO that's about the rich family that's supposed to be like– – Oh The Descendants? – It's supposed to be like Rupert Murdoch's family – [Both] Succession – You didn't like that when you started watching it 'cause you were like I don't like any of the people and I'm like that's why I like it, because I don't like any of the people – Yeah – So if you don't– – It's so harsh

– If you like to watch shows where everyone is unlikeable, (chuckles) you'll love The OA – Really, okay – But it's not like that It's not like the main character, the protagonist is not a jerk and you don't hate them and they're not morally corrupt, it's just– – I loved House back in the day – I don't think you'd– – He was so unlikable, he was likable

And that was the device – There you go, okay, maybe there's hope – It's different All right – I'm gonna tell my house to play the next episode of OA for me

See how it responds – House, whenever I walk up to you and enter your front, start playing The OA on every screen – What if I asked the house to play House? It might just implode – Well it's probably smarter than that Like– – Play myself? What? Break down

(laughs) (Link makes buzzing sound) You want your whole house to collapse, ask it to play House – Yeah, I mean I ain't doing that (Rhett chuckles) – #EarBiscuits, talk to us Keep listening, don't give up on us – Yeah

It'll get better – [Link] To watch more Ear Biscuits, click on the playlist on the right – [Rhett] To watch the previous episode of Ear Biscuits, click on the playlist to the left – [Link] And don't forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe – [Rhett] If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it's available on all your favorite podcast platforms

Thanks for being your Mythical best (electronic music)

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